This episode was written and produced by Casey Emmerling.

The original Zelda game featured three melodies that would come to define the franchise: the Secret Unlocked Sound, the Treasure Chest sound, and the classic Zelda theme. Throughout the series, these melodies have been transformed again and again. Each version reflects the hardware it was made for, and Nintendo’s evolving approach to these iconic games. Featuring Thomas of Thomas Game Docs, and Kirk Hamilton of Strong Songs.

MUSIC FEATURED IN THIS EPISODE

Original music by Wesley Slover
A Thief’s Waltz by Victor Lundberg
Butter by Sound of Picture
Montage of a Map by Eden Avery

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View Transcript ▶︎

[music in]

You're listening to Twenty Thousand Hertz.

[clip: Zelda NES gameplay]

My obsession with Zelda started when I was six, with the very first Zelda game. I remember spending hours roaming around Hyrule, fighting monsters and looking for secrets.

[clip: NES Secret Unlocked into BotW sounds + BotW Waterfront theme]

Decades later, when my daughter was six, she fell in love with Breath of the Wild. As a dad and a huge Zelda nerd, it made me really proud.

[sfx: Spirit Orb effect]

But when she first started playing, it came at a cost.

[music in]

Dallas' Daughter: So it was right after I demolished your game.

That's my daughter, who's now ten years old.

Dallas' Daughter: So when I was little, my dad had beat the game.

By that point, I had put hundreds of hours into Breath of the Wild. And even though I had finished the main story, I still had plenty left to explore.

Dallas' Daughter: And I wanted to play it. So I accidentally clicked the button that said, “New Game.”

So I remember you hitting New Game, and when I looked over and I saw that you didn't have any armor or anything, my heart sunk.

Dallas' Daughter: Awww…

Do you remember what I said you had to do because you deleted my game?

Dallas' Daughter: You said that I'd have to beat that game.

Yeah. And did you?

Dallas' Daughter: Yes. It took me about uh, five years to - no, four years to do it!

[music out]

A huge part of what makes these games so special is the music.But no matter which version of Zelda you're playing, a huge part of the appeal is the music.

[clip: Zelda music montage]

The Zelda series is full of classic themes and melodies... some of which go all the way back to that original game I played as a kid. Like the Secret Unlocked Sound... [sfx: LoZ - Secret Unlocked] the Treasure Chest sound... [LoZ - Treasure Chest] And of course, the iconic Zelda theme.

[clip: Zelda NES Title Theme]

As we explored in our last episode, these tunes were born in the age of eight bits, and five lo-fi channels of audio. But those limitations forced composer Koji Kondo to make them as distilled and powerful as possible.

[music in]

As the series went on, these melodies would come back again and again. Each time, they were transformed to fit the mood and themes of the individual games. And each version is a reflection of the hardware it was made for, and where Nintendo was as a company.

[music out]

In 1991, Nintendo released A Link to the Past. It came out on the Super Nintendo, and for eleven year old Dallas, it was a huge deal.

Commercial: The new Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past. Now, you’re playing with power. Super power.

The Super Nintendo was a big step forward in terms of both graphics and sound. This allowed Koji Kondo to move away from the simple 8 bit sounds of the first game. In A Link to the Past, the Secret Unlocked melody has more of a bell chime sound.

[sfx: LttP Secret Unlocked]

And the Treasure Chest sound is once again played with two notes, separated by a major third. But this time, Kondo used a triumphant horn tone, and added a drum roll to the end. [sfx: LttP - Treasure Chest]

Thomas: Altogether it sounds big and dramatic, and it feels like the natural evolution of the first game's sound effect.

That's Thomas, who hosts a Youtube channel about video game history called Thomas Game Docs.

Thomas: Link to the Past's soundtrack in general has sort of a faux orchestral thing going on, as much as the technological limits allow.

[clip: LttP - Overworld Theme]

That faux orchestral sound comes through loud and clear in the game's version of the Overworld theme.

[clip out]

With their next system, Nintendo made the leap from 16 bits to 64, which was such a big deal, they put it right in the name of the console.

Commercial: Only on the Nintendo 64…

The first Zelda game on the Nintendo 64 was Ocarina of Time.

[clip: OoT Title Screen]

Ocarina was groundbreaking for tons of reasons, including the jump to 3D graphics, a new combat system, and a totally fresh sound palette.

But despite all of these changes, the Secret Unlocked sound stayed surprisingly close to the original NES version.

[sfx: OoT Secret Unlocked]

Thomas: Yeah, I find Ocarina of Time's version of this sound effect really interesting because the rest of Ocarina of Time's soundtrack is a move in a completely different direction.

[clip: Forest Temple theme]

Thomas: For the first time, the dungeons you explore, the music that plays in them is much less melodic and much more atmospheric and ethereal.

Thomas: Koji Kondo uses kind of weird, strange noises mixed in with like, pad sounds. And yet the secret unlocked sound effect is much more abrasive and synthesizer-y, [OoT Secret Unlocked] and it doesn't really feel like it belongs with the rest of the music from the game.

[music out]

Thomas: I suppose one reason he could have done that is so that it sticks out. There's a harsh contrast between this sound and the rest of the things you're hearing.

But while Ocarina didn't change much about the Secret Unlocked sound, it marked a big evolution for the Treasure Chest melody. When you open a large chest in the game, there's a whole animation sequence where Link pushes open the lid. [OoT chest open] The chest is so big that young Link has to hoist himself up and reach down inside. [OoT Link hops + Treasure Chest melody] You can't see what's in it, but the light shining out of it tells you it's something awesome. Finally, Link reaches in and pulls it out.

By adding that long, ascending intro, Koji Kondo gave the sound a much bigger sense of anticipation. Whenever you hear it in the game, you can't help but think to yourself…

[OoT Treasure chest]

Ocarina Player: What's it going to be? What's it going to be? What's it going to be? What's it going to be? What's it going to be? What's it going to be? What's it going to be? What's it going to be? What's it going to be? What's it going to be? What's it going to be?

Ocarina Player: Oh sick, it's a boomerang!

Musically, that intro actually has a lot going on.

Kirk: Yeah, it's combining two different scales.

That's Kirk Hamilton, a musician, composer and host of the Strong Songs podcast.

Kirk: So the chromatic scale and the whole tone scale. The chromatic scale being just, if you sit down at a piano and you play every single note [sfx: piano example] up the piano, black and white keys, you get a chromatic scale. And a whole tone scale is if you play just whole steps. So you play every other note. [sfx: piano example] That's going in whole steps. So what this is doing is just moving up the first four notes of a whole tone scale, [sfx: piano example] and then it goes up a half step and does the same thing. [sfx: piano example] Then it goes up a half step again, so up the chromatic scale and does the same thing again, [sfx: piano example] and then again.

[sfx: piano example]

Kirk: And they add, [sfx: piano example] like Ocarina has that flat seventh down on the bottom.

The flat seven is played with kind of a tuba sound. [sfx: tuba notes] Here it is in its entirety.

[sfx: OoT Treasure Chest]

Kirk: And then it kind of ends on this dominant chord, so… [sfx: piano example]

This change from major to dominant gives the sound a bit more momentum, just like the Secret Unlocked melody.

Kirk: That's another kind of unsettled place to end. I mean, this chord, [sfx: piano example] it doesn't feel like you're home. You're not in a safe place. It's more, “You're moving forward. So you've picked up a new item, it's very exciting. Now what are you gonna do with it?”

Strangely enough, the full Zelda theme doesn't appear anywhere in Ocarina of Time. But Koji Kondo did put a couple of call backs to it in the Hyrule Field theme.

[clip - OoT - Hyrule Field]

The next leap forward for the music of Zelda came on the Nintendo Gamecube, with Wind Waker.

Commercial: This year, the legend is reborn.

In that game, the Secret Unlocked sound is played with a synthesized harp.

[sfx: WW - Secret Unlocked]

Thomas: It's the first time that it sounds definitely like a real instrument, which blends in well with the game soundtrack, which is kind of more Gaelic sounding. There's like bagpipe-type sounds.

[clip: WW - Ceremony in the Woods]

Thomas: There's guitary-type things.

[clip: WW - Dragon Roost Island]

Thomas: It has a much more folk sound, the music of Wind Waker, and so I feel like a harp fits in kind of well with the overall musical palette that the game adopts. [sfx: WW - Secret Unlocked]

For the Treasure Chest sound, they added a high, sustained string note to the introduction, and gave the ending a more brassy sound.

[sfx: WW - Treasure Chest]

The next Zelda game for a home console was Twilight Princess. It came out on both the Gamecube and the Wii, which makes this commercial a bit confusing.

Commercial: The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess, only for Wii. Rated Teen.

By this point in the series, Koji Kondo had moved to more of a supervisory role, with other composers making most of the music. But Kondo did compose one track for the game. It plays during the intro sequence, after the title screen. The piece features a moody rendition of the classic Zelda melody. And for the very first time in the series, it was recorded with a full, live orchestra.

[clip: TP - Demo Music]

Kondo loved hearing his music come to life with a live orchestra. In an interview with Nintendo Power, he said quote, "Even when I’ve spent countless hours creating digital music with complex layers for Nintendo’s games, artificial sounds just can’t beat the real depth and expression of live instruments.”

At first, Kondo hoped that they could score the entire game with a live orchestra... which would have been a big change.

Thomas: For a long time, higher ups at Nintendo had put their foot down and requested that no real orchestra sound should be used in games because they felt that it wasn't gamey. They said it felt like listening to a CD while you play a game.

In the end, Nintendo decided that the flexibility of synthesized music was a better fit for Twilight Princess. So apart from that one track in the intro, they kept the music synthetic. Here's a clip of the game's Hyrule Field theme, featuring another call-back to the classic Zelda melody.

[clip: TP - Hyrule Field Theme]

Like in Wind Waker, the Secret Unlocked sound uses a synthesized harp.

[sfx: TP - Secret Unlocked]

While the Treasure Chest melody includes an angelic choral sound.

[sfx: TP - Treasure Chest]

Following the debate about whether to use an orchestra for Twilight Princess, Nintendo had to make a similar decision with their other major franchise… Mario.

[music in]

At the time, they were working on a game called Mario Galaxy. That game was mainly composed by Mahito Yokota, with Koji Kondo acting as the Sound Supervisor.

Early on, Yokota wrote a demo song and played it for Kondo. It was a playful piece that used Latin American instruments, [sfx: percussion] and a kind of sci-fi theremin sound to match the spacey theme.

[sfx: theremin line]

But when Kondo heard it, he said the track was no good, saying quote "If somewhere in your mind you have an image that Mario is cute, please get rid of it.”

As Kondo told him, “Mario isn't cute, Mario is cool.”

Yokota was so shocked that he thought about quitting his job. But instead, he went back to the drawing board. Three months later, he sat down with Shigeru Miyamoto, the creator of both Mario and Zelda, to get his input on the music.

[music out]

Yokota played three tracks for Miyamoto, without telling him who wrote them. One track was bright and poppy. Another was a mix of pop and orchestral music. And the last one was purely orchestral. It was an early version of this track.

[clip: Mario Galaxy - Egg Planet]

After listening, Miyamoto chose the orchestral piece, saying that it felt the most space-like. What Miyamoto didn't know was, that piece was actually written by Koji Kondo.

[music in]

For Yokota, this confirmed that Kondo really knew the sound of Mario. So after that, he changed direction, and started writing grand, orchestral pieces for Mario Galaxy. Koji Kondo also wrote a few of his own. And for the first time in a Mario or Zelda game, the entire soundtrack was recorded with a live, fifty piece orchestra.

Here’s the main theme from Super Mario Galaxy.

[clip: Super Mario Galaxy Theme]

After that, the sound of Zelda would never be the same.

[clip: Montage of Skyward Sword, BotW, and TotK theme]

That's coming up, after the break.

[music out]

MIDROLL

[music in]

In 2007, Mario Galaxy became the first Mario or Zelda game to use a live, fully orchestrated soundtrack. Like so many Mario games, Galaxy was a smash hit. And for the next Zelda game, Shigeru Miyamoto insisted they use a live orchestra for the entire score. That game was Skyward Sword. And while Zelda has always sounded great, the addition of an orchestra gave Skyward Sword a new cinematic vibe.

[music out]

Here's the epic rendition of the Overworld Theme that plays in the end credits.

[clip: SS - End Credits Theme]

And that live, orchestral sound carried over into the Secret Unlocked sound effect.

[sfx: SS - Secret Unlocked]

Kirk: This sounds like an actual harp player playing it. And they're adding some mustard to the original. There are some extra notes in there. They kind of go up a longer arpeggio. [sfx: SS - Secret Unlocked]

Oddly enough, the game's Treasure Chest sound seems to be synthesized, rather than live. But that doesn't make it any less energetic.

[sfx: SS - Treasure Chest]

Kirk: Man, that one. Talk about mustard! They put all the mustard on everything in Skyward Sword, ‘cuz everything in Skyward Sword is the most maximalist orchestral version. There are those harp arpeggios just tearing it up. [sfx: SS - Treasure Chest]

After Skyward Sword, lots of people expected the next Zelda game to sound even bigger. And with the huge, open map of Breath of the Wild, you might think that it would have the most bombastic soundtrack ever. But the composers decided to go in a completely unexpected direction.

[clip: BotW - Field - Day]

Kirk: Breath of the Wild is such an interesting Zelda soundtrack because it uses a lot of the same musical themes, but they're much more sparse. A lot of the soundtrack for Breath of the Wild is just solo piano.

[clip: BotW - Field - Day]

Thomas: So all the time when you're exploring the game's beautiful valleys and mountains and hills, and you’re hearing kind of sparse piano sounds playing around you.

[clip: BotW - Field - Day]

Thomas: And also a lot of the game's sound effects were rearranged for a more of a piano sound.

[sfx: BotW - Secret Unlocked]

How does that sound make you feel?

Dallas' Daughter: It feels like it's mysterious. Like, "What's there?"

“What's there.”

Dallas' Daughter: Mm-hmm, ‘cuz then you finally completed something that was hard for you, or not hard for you, simple, and then that thing plays, it reminds you you're one step closer.

[sfx: BotW - Secret Unlocked]

Most of the soundtrack is very organic. But when you interact with any ancient technology, the sounds get much more synthesized. Here’s the music you hear inside the mysterious shrines.

[clip: BotW Shrine Theme]

When you unlock a new rune, or another part of the map, you hear the Treasure Chest melody. This version is kind of a hybrid between the game’s organic and synthetic sounds.

[sfx: BotW - Rune Extraction]

Kirk: So the way that that uses delay creates a really different energy. There's a kind of staggered quality to it that feels a little disorienting. [sfx: BotW - Rune Extraction intro] They're all the way up at the end of the piano on the right side in the highest notes that the piano can make.

At the end, there's a breathy, synthesized layer.

[sfx: BotW - Rune Extraction end]

But for one particular item, you hear a different version of the Treasure Chest sound. This one doesn’t include the long intro.

[sfx: BotW - Master Sword]

Kirk: Dominant seventh is in there. That one's nice, this sort of choral version.

That version plays when you finally get the Master Sword, which is the only weapon in the game that doesn't eventually break.

Thomas: And when you unlock the Master Sword, it makes a lot of sense that therefore you hear this new "item get" sound effect, which is much closer to the traditional sound of unlocking an item.

What do you think about that sound?

Dallas' Daughter: It makes me feel like "I've unlocked something, and it's very valuable!"

[sfx: BotW - Master Sword]

And that's not the only place where Breath of the Wild gets a bit more traditional with its music.

[clip: BotW - True Ending]

If you manage to unlock the so-called true ending, you'll see an extra cutscene that plays after you defeat Ganon. In it, Zelda tells Link that they'll have to work together to rebuild Hyrule. And that scene is set to an emotional rendition of the classic Zelda theme.

[music out]

Breath of the Wild was followed by a direct sequel, called Tears of the Kingdom. Overall, the game's musical palette is pretty similar to Breath of the Wild, and it reuses the same Treasure Chest and Secret Unlocked sounds.

But there are some notable changes to the soundtrack, like the dreamy reed instruments you hear in the Sky Islands.

[clip: TotK - Sky Islands theme]

Tears of the Kingdom also has a dark, cavernous underworld called The Depths.

[clip: TotK - The Depths 1]

The music in the Depths is peppered with ominous, ethereal sounds.

[clip: TotK - The Depths 2]

It’s a bit like the dungeons of Ocarina of Time, but with even less melodic elements.

[clip: TotK - The Depths 3]

But while most of the soundtrack is pretty sparse, in one part of the game, there's a whole bunch of classic melodies. You see, both Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom have a cooking component. And whenever Link cooks, he hums. Here's the tune he hummed in Breath of the Wild, which doesn’t seem to be a callback to anything...

[sfx: BotW - Link Humming]

But in Tears of the Kingdom...

Kirk: He is now humming a variety of different melodies. He's expanded his repertoire. And one of the melodies that he hums is just a little sort of hint at the main Zelda theme, he's like [hums].

[clip: TotK - Humming Zelda Theme]

Other times, Link hums a snippet of Zelda's Lullaby, a melody that goes back to Ocarina of Time.

[clip: TotK - Humming Zelda's Lullaby]

[clip: OoT - Zelda's Lullaby]

Kirk: He also hums The Ballad of the Goddess from Skyward Sword.

[clip: TotK - Humming Ballad of the Goddess]

[clip: SS - Ballad of the Goddess]

Kirk: And he hums Epona's Song from Ocarina.

[clip: TotK - Humming Epona’s song]

[clip: OoT - Epona's Song]

It almost like Link is remembering his past lives.

Kirk: Yeah, that's kind of what it seems like. There's always that feeling in Zelda, right? there are these through lines, but it's not actually the same guy, but it sort of is the same guy because he's this immortal, mythic figure in a certain way. So it would make sense that he would have this kind of ambiguous memory where he just hums these melodies because he's heard them somewhere, maybe in a dream.

[clip: TotK - Humming Ballad of Goddess + SS - Ballad of the Goddess - Harp as memory]

[sfx: Navi "Listen!"]

Okay, so I don’t normally do this, but I’m gonna break the fourth wall and stop the show because I know that tons of people are playing Tears of the Kingdom right now, including me. But there’s this really beautiful musical section at the very end of the game that is perfectly relevant to this story, but I don’t wanna give you any spoilers. So if you wanna stay spoiler free, pause the episode right now, and skip ahead by about a minute. I’ll give you some time.

[sfx: OoT - Countdown + whistle]

Like Breath of the Wild, Tears of the Kingdom includes a true ending that you can unlock by completing all of the main quests. And that final cutscene is filled with musical callbacks.

[clip: TotK - True Ending]

First, you hear Zelda's Lullaby...Then, the track transitions into the main Tears of the Kingdom theme...Finally, it crescendos into the classic Zelda melody.

[music in]

These days, you can find the music of Zelda all over the place. People make remixes and lo-fi versions that get millions of listens. Symphonies around the world perform these themes in sold out concert halls. Of course, there's a lot of great video game music out there. But for Zelda players like me, this music is just magical.

Kirk: So you hear it over and over and over again. You hear these beautiful themes, these lush melodies, these rewarding little jingles, and you form this relationship with them over dozens of hours as you play through a Zelda game.

Kirk: And then because the Zelda series has been going on for so long, and because they've stayed true to Koji Kondo's music throughout this entire run, you know, for 30 years, we have an even stronger relationship with those melodies, because it's been with you, for some of us, it's been with us our whole lives.

Kirk: Over my life, I've played so many Zelda games at so many different points, that at this point, I hear this music and it just, it kind of transports me. I feel like I'm home.

For most of my life, the music of Zelda took me back to being that little kid, exploring the hidden corners of Hyrule... Fast forward three decades, and now I have a daughter who’s falling in love with these games, just like I did.

Now, when I hear this music, I think about her, and all of the time we've spent playing these games together. And someday when I'm gone, and she hears this music...

I hope she'll think of me.

I helped a little bit at the end, though. That's okay.

Dallas' Daughter: Yeah, you actually were the one who beat Gannon. ‘Cuz I just don't have the dignity to do it.

[laughs] You don't have the dignity to do it?

Dallas' Daughter: But this time it's Ganondorf. But he's harder.

Yeah. I guess last question here, um, why is Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom special to you?

Dallas' Daughter: I don't know. It just is so fun. You wanna keep doing it over and over and over, no stopping.

Do you know why it's special to me?

Dallas' Daughter: Why?

Because we both love it.

Dallas' Daughter: Yeah! And we both have our own game. Now I can't crash your game.

That's true.

Dallas' Daughter: [laughs]

Twenty Thousand Hertz is produced out of the sound design studios of Defacto Sound. Find out more at Defacto Sound dot com.

This episode was written and produced by Casey Emmerling, with help from Grace East. It was sound designed and mixed by Joel Boyter. With original music by Wesley Slover.

Thanks to our guests, Kirk and Thomas. Kirk's podcast is called Strong Songs. In each episode, he breaks down an iconic piece of music to find out what makes it work. Thomas has a Youtube channel called Thomas Game Docs, and it's all about video game history. Both of these links are in the show notes.

I’m Dallas Taylor. Thanks for listening.

[music out]